Having big problems spraying AK paint

Evening

I have been trying to spray for the first time AK paints, on this time the rust paint for tracks and have had major problems .

I thinned using water as recommended but found the paint thick and after a short while it started to block the airbrush.I cleaned the brush and started again and this time shaked the bottle for an even longer time thinning more and gave the mixture another stir with my Trumpeter paint stirer, but still problems. Seems other on others sites are also having similar problems?

Could some one advise as i have almost used all the bottle ! I have other Ak paint sets and this is making me think twice about using them or even buying other sets???

regards bob

Hi bob i really feel bad for you this is an on going problem that just wont go away,i have bought at least eight sets of these witch cost over two hundred bucks and its depressing to think that two thirds of them i wont use,im pretty sure AK will send you new ones,I really love these paint sets when you get good ones but im at the stage now were i wont buy any more because you just never know what your going to get,AK is in my eyes the best company in the world for modeling products but they really need to fix this problem

The first sets doesn´t have any problems. Maybe AK should produce them again with Vallejo. I buyed the first sets and they were more then great.
But I´ve seen that Vallejo got own modulation sets.

[quote="Tobias Bayer"]The first sets doesn´t have any problems. Maybe AK should produce them again with Vallejo. I buyed the first sets and they were more then great.
But I´ve seen that Vallejo got own modulation sets

Hi Tobias,i have early and recent sets and both have bad bottles,some sets are perfect at the bottom of the container all you do is give it a really good shake and your good to go,and others are lumpy and sticky down the bottom,it should be consistant on all the bottles

The first time it happend to me was with the grey set, but I got a replacement and this one was fine again. The sets with the primer never made problems.
I think AK will fix the problem soon.

Hello Gents,

We apologize for any problems or inconsistency in our products. We have recently upgraded our production and have acquired our own machines in order or us to control the entire process - reducing our reliance on outside production sources. Please let us know if the problems persist, or if you feel you would like replacement bottles.

Rick

Hi Rick

My biggest concern is that I have Late War German colors AK00554 and the Africa Korp set AK00550, will i have the same problems with these?

I would greatly appreciate a replacement bottle of the AK721 rusty tracks, i have almost used it up trying to spray it!

Regards bob

I have had problems with the paint drying in the nozzle during spraying, but no more or worse than what occurs with the regular Vallejo paints, or even with some of the Life Color paints.

I thin them very little....a few drops of water (thoroughly mixed together in a container, before pouring into the AB cup). I am shooting them at slightly higher pressure...and they go on fine.

I have also thinned them with a few drops of Windex. Be careful though if you use this and are shooting faurly wet, over a layer of HS....the Windex may attack the HS.

Hello guy's ,It seem's to be a familiar topic ,how to get the paint to spray.I have tried Vallejo model air and had very mixed results and given what i have read here and else where, AK's paint seems to behave in a similar fashion, the common link to both of these paints is that they are both supposed to spray ready straight from the bottle and thinned with water .I think this raises people,s expectations and when it doesn't work they get annoyed .Rick, what we need is to find is what we can thin the paint with and is it something that is available every where ? .Tap water doesn't seem to work very well IMHO , and what sort of pressure should we be looking at for spraying?.The above issue's are what is holding me back from getting some of the paint sets ,as i'm having to order it into the country and i don't want to do that until i'm sure it will work as well as what i'm using now,[gunze, tamiya].The thing that doe's draw me to Ak paint is the color sets and the not having to mix colors to get the right shade.thanks for reading ,have fun Wayne

One of the problems when thinning water based paints, such as the Vallejo Air....and for thos having problems with the AK, it could e sim....is that they are already pre-thinned, and adding too much, or more, water will invariably over dilute the the binder material (known as a "medium") once this is done there can/will be issues with the paint, suc as, beading, spraying poorly, not bonding, and a number of other isssues.

It might/would behoove those wishing to thin these to try mixing in some medium, with the water they add. the Vallejo "thinner", is basically such a medium. There are also comercially available mediums at art shops from such companies as Liquitex, Rembrandt, etc. If you use the art shop kind get the best one you can find.

I have found that for me,the trick to adding the medium is to first thoroughly mix the medium and some water in a small mixing cup, then thouroughly mix this into the paint, in another mixing cup (paint in cup first...add medium/water mix, as needed/desired)....how much to mix/add of each depends on the thickness of the paint,. and what you are trying to do....but if once they are all mixed together, if it is still too thick, you can always add a couple more drops of water...and mix thoroughly.

I also recommend that you use distilled water to mix the AK and Vallejo acrylics, rather than tap water.

(Note that the above method is also applicable to mixing regular Vallejo paints for Airbrushing)

As an additional long winded note...

IMO and my experience with the AK paints is that they behave far more like Life-Color paints than Vallejo, insofar as spraying (and any issues associated), bonding to surface, general properties when diluting, etc. .......so some of these concerns that are being riased here and "elsewhere", though maybe valid from a certain POV, may just be from people that are not accustomed to dealing with this type of mix/paint from other mfrs as well.

If these paints were more along the makeup of the regular Vallejos, I think they would be a nightmar/PitA to use for chipping, because they, like Vallejos, would come off in overly large chunks and blotches.

Hi Marc
So would you say distilled water is the best thing to use if thinning is needed? I have some Vallejo Airbrush Thinner and was thinking of trying that.

Thanks, Tom

Hello again,

This is an interesting topic for me as I have never had the problem of the paints being too thick....matter of fact, my issue with the paints is that they seem a bit on the thin side for my taste. I'd rather have the control of thinning than left with shooting only what I get premixed from the bottle. That said -

Wayne Bull wrote: AK's paint seems to behave in a similar fashion, the common link to both of these paints is that they are both supposed to spray ready straight from the bottle and thinned with water .I think this raises people,s expectations and when it doesn't work they get annoyed .Rick, what we need is to find is what we can thin the paint with and is it something that is available every where ?

Wayne, I think that you make a good point in saying that folks have different expectations so that can have a big influence on their experience. However, if I understand your comment what you are asking for is a suggestion for a "universal" thinner that maybe we all can use. I have heard Mig talk about using lacquer thinner (Tamiya, Gunze) to thin the AK paints. I just did some experimenting using a variety of AK colors with a few drops of Tamiya Lacquer with very good results. It was about 10-15% thinner.

For those of you who have used Tamiya Lacquer Thinner (yellow cap) along with the Tamiya XF acrylic paints the result was very reminiscent. The flow from the airbrush seemed very smooth and the paint laid down evenly. The application, although thin, was not watery or did not produce spider splatters.

As they say - Your results may vary! As with all of this stuff that we do the best thing is to experiment, tweak, trial and error - and really, isn't that the fun part of modeling anyway?

Talk to you guys soon,
Rick

mmm...I might try that Lacquer Thinner, it works great with the Tamiya paints, but didn't expect it to work well with AK paints as well

I must say, I got the Panzer Grey modulation set a while ago and it didn't quite spray like Vallejo paints, much more troubles with it (there was also a big paste in the container, even after heavy shaking.) Normally I thin the Vallejo ones using their Airbrush cleaner and it worked out well, but the AK paints had a problem.

Carlos Cuesta sent me a new set for free but it was as bad as the old one. Now I understand that the early sets had those problems so I hope that the issues will be solved. In any way customer service gets 100%, that's superb

I might give that modulation set another try with the Lacquer Thinner, I'll keep you guys posted on the result ^^

Cheers

Tom Neeson wrote:Hi Marc
So would you say distilled water is the best thing to use if thinning is needed? I have some Vallejo Airbrush Thinner and was thinking of trying that.

Thanks, Tom

Tom,

The "use distilled water" was in reference to that whenever sing water for thinning acrylics, I recommend/always use distilled water.

As noted in my post, I would try a mix of the Vallejo thinner AND Distilled water....then mix it into the paint. You can use only distilled water, and it does work fine...but it really depends on how much you start to add (this also depends on the consist of the paint)...because of you thin the medium in the paint too much, you can/will start having problems.

Whan thinning the regular Vallejo paintsfor Ab-ing, I personally have found, and feel, that the thinner doesn't really do the job by itself, as it is still not viscous enough to shoot well through the AB (especially once mixed with the paint)...but what it does is add more medium...even if dilluted by water, into the original paint mix...which helps keep the pigment together.

What you use and how much comes down to practice/ecxperience....because of the way these paints can begin to dry-up/thicken over time, (and different bottles in different peoples stashes do so differently....there is no way to give you a ratio. Add to that, that everyone -- as evidenced by this thread -- mixes their paints to different consistencies.

Can some one please answer this question for me! no1 i very rarely spray these paints when i do i thin with windex just to break the surface tension and have never had a hint of a problem (0.3mm airbrush tip),i mainly use them for brush work(thats the thing i love about them)but my main problem is WHY do i have some bottles with perfect concistancy(just shake and use)then others the top of the bottle is watery muck and the bottom is hard mud that can not be mixed in with the rest

Did you not see the expiration date on the bottom?

I have always just put this off to normal drying...from exposure to air, the way they are stored, etc. I routinely go through and pull off tops and thin/stir/remix when possible/needed. But yes....I do occasionally have to toss some bottles.

Marc very good point,but that is going to open a whole new can of worms!

Thanks to all of you for your replies

I'll buy some Tamiya yellow top thinner

cheers bob

Mark

mark bush wrote:Can some one please answer this question for me!.... WHY do i have some bottles with perfect concistancy(just shake and use)then others the top of the bottle is watery muck and the bottom is hard mud that can not be mixed in with the rest

Without getting too geeky here, one of the major reasons for "inconsistency" between bottles/colors is due to what is inside the bottle - the actual chemical and physical components. What I mean is this: Every color is derived from some type of substance, different particulate structures (big vs. small), differing ph balance, differing opacity levels...etc.

When you boil it all down some colors are just easier to produce than others. As an example; when we make resin castings we can make nice translucent red parts very easily, however yellow is much more difficult. It all has to do with whatever natural element or blend of elements are required to make a particular color.

So, (get ready for the run-on sentence) when it comes down to our little bottles the simple fact of the matter is that some colors use elements that lend themselves to remain suspended in a specific type of carrier fluid at certain density level over long period of time, and then are equally happy to be briefly shaken and then squirted into your airbrush cup, and then sprayed through your brush at varying levels of pressure over varying heights resulting in a perfect finish on your model every time, and then are equally cooperative when it comes time to remove the remnants of the painting session with a quick and easy clean-up. While other color elements are not quite so happy to perform these tasks and will show their displeasure by clogging your brush, splattering your paint and generally making your painting experience a living hell.

I'm being a little cheeky here, Mark, and I mean no disrespect. All that I am trying to say is that sometimes putting paint in a little bottle has it's own unique challenges. We at AK take the products that we produce very seriously and continue to tweak and refine those areas that fall short of yours and our standards. The feedback that you guys provide us through this forum is critical to us - so please, let us know what is not working for you - it's important.

Thanks,
rick

Thanks Rick , for the quick reply ,and your last post which i thought was a very good answer to the question.There is one other big variable to all this and it's the airbrush we use .I have just acquired a new Badger sotar 20/20 f , it require's the paint to be far thinner than what my trusty Badger 150 fine likes ,so i have had to learn what works for the sotar. The point i'm trying to make is we may have to learn how to use Ak 's paint to suit our own setups. I now know what my next overseas order will be for a set of Ak'S late war German paint, I've got a panther that is going to need some. Have fun ,Wayne

Hi Marc
Thanks for the response, I guess we're all looking for that magic formula, but there isn't one, too many varibles.

I start experimenting when I get my paints, using yours and others great advice.

Thanks again!
Tom

I really wish AK would produce thier paint in the "Vallejo Model Color" style, that is to say, very thick, gloppy paint in the bottle that you thin on your own to spray/ brush. I have two of the original modulation sets, and while i really like the colors, spraying them really did not work for me. By the time I got the paint to cover, I had already applied too much paint to the model and had ugly pooling. The absolute worst part about those paints is that they dry to what can be described as a "latex" finish. If I scratch the paint of a model I painted in Tamiya paint, for example, the paint comes off in a chip. When i scratched the paint of a Vallejo Model Air or AK painted model, it came off in a rubbery coating. This makes it very difficult to sand down coats of paints because you risk pulling up everything. Lastly, the kiss of death for the paint (for me) was that i could not find any chemical that would strip the paint. I like to have the option of starting over again, and no matter what product I put a model I painted with AK or VMA paint, it would not come off.

I have been using Tamiya paints for a very long time, and they win points with me since they are easily found, chip when scratched, and strip VERY easily with windex. I also like the Model Color line of paints, for airbrushing and hand brushing.

So that is my opinion on AK acrylics. I mean no harm or dig on the company (I use your products constantly), its just the acrylics you guys make just dont fit my tastes. I hope that you will see these remarks as purely constructive critisim

For removing Vallejo paint or any other for that matter Mr Muscle oven cleaner is the weapon of choice for me and it far quicker than window cleaner .Just spray and leave for 5-10 minutes and rinse of with warm water. hope this might help ,have fun wayne

I tried yesterday to thin my disastrous Panzer Grey Color mod set with Tamiya Lacquer Thinner and guess what: I have never sprayed an acrylic so smooth before, so thanks for the tip Rick!

Cheers